BetUS— player complaints: 5 in English

So when i added mone I received a $12 free play. I then had a 30x playthrough. I made my playthtough. I was then told i had to make a $100 sports bet i did. once i completed that I went to withdraw $330. They said i would have withdraw in 24-48 hours. Then i was told i had to compleat another 30x playthrough. Once i completed half of that now they saying i have another $5800 playthrough. The more i win the more they keep adding on and will not let me withdraw

Hello The Pogg. Before I start I want to quickly say that please don’t publish this publicly yet! I’m basically asking for advice on what I should do. So please don’t contact the casino yet either! In short, the casino knows this case might be headed towards arbitration, but refused my request to “keep everything in writing”. Every arbitrator would want the communications to be in writing, especially after an incident already happened. The casino is insisting on me calling them. I’m not only uncomfortable with this but also deeply suspicious of their motives. I’m looking for advice on what I should do regarding the casino trying to keep the communication “Off-writing” by insisting on the call. There’s already a confiscation involved. Having a critical part of the conversation off-writing would allow them to possibly create a “he-said-she-said” situation and put the arbitrator in a difficult position. My case might be one of the weirdest you’ve ever seen. It looks like it’s either an innocent misunderstanding, caused by a low ranking security personnel not understanding how high rollers work. Or, it’s [EDIT]. I’ll go ahead and give you more details on the broader situation. If this case does indeed end up in arbitration (The Pogg), then the rest of this message, with a lot of rephrasing and rewording, will be the official complaint. For now I’m still hoping to resolve the issue with the casino internally. As I do think all this could just be a misunderstanding that is easily sorted out if the right person sees it. But I’ve already reached an impasse with casino customer service regarding having conversation off-writing. I tried to keep all my communications in writing after the confiscation happened. So I do have all the chat logs and internal messages from the casino. If you need them just ask. I won’t copy paste them now because they’re quite long. I’ll summarize and give highlights. Key details overview: $4860 confiscated for the reason of “Professional play” BetUS does not have any “FU” term/ “Catchall” aka “spirit of the bonus” Term in their T&Cs. Hence this confiscation breached their own terms. I have two jobs and two kids. I am not a professional gambler. No bonuses were involved to begin with as far as this confiscation is concerned. This was confirmed by customer support. I’ve lost every bonus that I’ve claimed at this casino. This was a long time before the confiscation. They have two rollovers, something I’ve never seen elsewhere. I’ve always ended up losing my deposit and bonus at some point. I’ve only started winning after I stopped claiming bonuses. This was over 3 months ago. Since then, I’ve had wins and losses, deposits and withdrawals. Many times, without problem, until the confiscation. I was a losing player while using bonuses and only won after I deposited without bonuses. This is the opposite of what “professional” players do. I’m a high roller, my bet size per round is usually hundreds of dollars, often over $1000. Their actual reason for confiscation (relayed to me by customer support). Was that “I won too much compared to my deposit, so they were suspicious”. Customer support suggested bribing the management to restore account access. In his own words, “Well, the reason your account is disabled is because you won too much. So if you offer management money, that’s probably the best way to negotiate with them.” I wrote to them to let them know that I want to resolve this issue peacefully and internally if possible, but will resort to 3rd party arbitration if it fails. I informed them that per arbitrator request, as well as my own safety, all communication should be in writing. They insist I call them, while repeatedly telling me “There’s no need for 3rd party arbitration” They never even asked me for verification documents. They just straight up went for the confiscation. No other casino has EVER called me a “professional”, or confiscated my money, or revoked my bonus privilege. In other words, “Another casino in the industry told us you’re a professional” is not possible. I am deeply suspicious why they insist on dragging this conversation off-writing with the vague promise of “it’s the best way to resolve the situation”. If this is a genuine misunderstanding, I’d like to keep playing at this casino in the future. If it’s [EDIT], I’d want to spread the message and let other players know what would happen if they’re lucky enough to win. I’m up $6000 on the house. I’ve had a total of $5000 deposit and $11000 withdrawal. More details: BetUS confiscated $4860 of my balance after requesting a withdrawal. Their reason was that “I violated their terms”, “the terms say recreational players only” and that I’m a “professional gambler”. First of all I am not a professional gambler, that is insulting. I have two jobs, a full time job as a warehouse manager and a part time job as a sales associate. On top of that I’m a single mom of two young daughters. I can prove that I have two jobs with things like tax returns and hence, not a “professional gambler”. Secondly - I did not breach their terms. They have NO term that allows them to confiscate my balance. The only term they have is that: “Casino is intended for recreational players only” (Which yes, I’m recreational). Let me explain what I mean, They literally do NOT have a term that allows them to confiscate the balance of a “professional” gambler. They do not have the “Catch-all” clause / “FU” clause i.e. spirit of the bonus clause. To be crystal clear, They do NOT have a term that looks like this: “Bonuses are for recreational players only. Players found to be abusing the bonus, in the sole discretion of the management, shall have their winnings confiscated and deposit refunded.” They do NOT have that. In other words, they broke their own terms by confiscating when the terms do not allow doing so. Here’s the part that demonstrates why I said this case might be one of the weirdest you’ve ever seen. Because my confiscation had absolutely nothing to do with bonuses. According to customer support I just “won too much”. So it’s not even just that “Bonuses are intended for recreational players only”, they literally had to rephrase it as “CASINO is intended for recreational players only” when they wrote to me. The last bonus I took was over 3 months ago, which I lost during the rollover, deposit included. In fact, I have never won a bonus at this casino. I always bust out sooner or later. They have two rollovers back to back per bonus, which is something I’ve never seen before. You have to first do a 30x on your deposit and bonus amount, and whatever money you have left from that balance, do another 30x on that number. I’ve always lost my deposit + bonus at this casino, so I just completely realized these bonuses are bait with those kinds of rollovers and decided to deposit without bonus. I actually started winning after depositing without bonuses. I was able to deposit, play and withdraw without bonus, many times, over 3 months just fine, until the confiscation. Anyway, I was able to confirm it had nothing to do with bonuses by asking customer support to look into my case. His responses were absolutely disgusting. I’m not referring to him personally here, I was referring to what he told me about why they flagged me as professional and how to handle it. I wish I was joking. But he told me that the casino security noticed my winnings (withdrawal - deposit) to my deposit ratio was too high, in a short time frame. That was pretty much it. “They were suspicious because you won several thousands and your account is only 7 months old and your deposit amount is low, so they flagged you.” Oh, is that really so? My total deposits were around $5000 and total withdrawals around $11000. So that’s a net win of $6000. Do we need to send the mathematicians to figure out what is the probability of winning $6000 on a $5000 total deposit? Because here’s the critical piece of information - my bet sizes were hundreds of dollars per hand/per round. Often even exceeding $1000 in one round (for example when I have to split and double down in blackjack on a $500 bet, or mississippi stud where you might start with $100 and get good starting cards, and keep raising 3x on every street). This is why I still see hope that the issue could have a possibility of being peacefully resolved with the casino before going to arbitration. It looks like the person who flagged me as professional was just a total idiot who just had no idea what “high roller” is. That he was looking at my deposit:win ratio rather than my Bet size:Win ratio. So if I can find someone in the casino management that does understand high rolling has nothing to do with the initial bank roll, but the average bet size, this situation could be easily resolved. [EDIT]. I heard that if you bet a penny on a coin flip, and win 20 times in a row, you’d have over a million dollars. Of course that would mean the final bet is half a million, while the initial “deposit” is $0.01. In the eyes of this security staff it would be PROFESSIONAL PROFESSIONAL. You might not believe your eyes if you see the chat log. When I asked the agent what he proposed I should do to get my casino access back. He said “Well, you should offer management some money. Since the whole situation is caused by you winning too much money, that’s probably the best way to negotiate with them.” Uh… no. There’s a $4860 confiscation involved. I did not “offer them money” as suggested. Instead, I wrote a polite message addressed to management. In the message, I explained that I have two jobs and two kids to look after. My wins are easily explainable as long as you’re looking at the bet size, not the deposit amount. I told them that $6000 win in 7 months is NOTHING by high roller standards. And that I’ve had swings in the thousands DAILY, sometimes up, sometimes down. I’ve seen people at my local casino with wins that are much much bigger in mere minutes. I also told them that I’ve played almost all the table games, video poker, and dozens of slot games in the casino, and my bet sizes are huge on all of them. I’ve done plenty of sports betting too. In fact, more than $500 of that confiscated $4860 was winnings from sports bets from the previous day. How does someone get any more recreational than that? No bonuses, plays all the games. From what I’ve heard professional players always hone in on one game, and do their entire rollover on that one game, cash out the bonus and move on to the next casino. It’s as opposite as my situation as it gets. More importantly, I told them that as much as I wish the situation to be resolved internally and peacefully, but if communication with management fails, I will take the case to arbitration. That brings me to the problem I was originally talking about at the beginning of this message. I tried to log in after sending the message but was unable to. I reached out to customer support again and this time he said they wanted me to call. I explained that given there’s already a confiscation involved, it means it could end up in arbitration. And that every third party arbitrator would want everything in writing. He kept pressuring me on the call. I once again told him several times that it’s almost a universal standard for arbitrators to want everything in writing. And for my own safety so do I. He said he thinks it’s much easier to resolve the situation by making the call rather than involving a 3rd party arbitrator. I acknowledged he has a point, however, if I allow this communication to go off-writing, it can end up in “He said she said” and put the arbitrator in a tough position. He kept saying there’s no need to go to 3rd party arbitration and the call can solve the situation. He at some point flat out said “My job right now is to get you on the phone”. I interpret this as what his superiors specifically instructed him to do. I said I don’t want to take the risk of the arbitration failing just because a critical part of the communication was not in writing. I said I’d need to ask the arbitrator for permission first. I told him I’m willing to make the call only if he can assure me the situation can be guaranteed to be resolved with the call, and never ending up in arbitration. In other words, give me a guarantee that if I call, I will get my money back and account access restored, and I’ll call. Otherwise I’ll need the arbitrator’s permission first. He couldn’t make that guarantee. So then I told him I’ll have to communicate with the arbitrator first. And ask if it’s ok for me to have this off-writing conversation with the casino on the phone. I told him the arbitrator is very likely going to ask what nature is this call. As in, for what purpose is the call that they insist must not be in writing. He didn’t answer my question, only to reiterate “to move forward we need to have you call”. He dodged answering what the purpose of the call is. I am deeply suspicious that they have some kind of unknown agenda to drag this conversation off-writing just in case it ends up in arbitration. They never even asked me for verification documents (ID, utility bill, etc). Just flat out went for confiscation. This makes me even more suspicious that their motives might just be flat out theft. Or perhaps, it’s still an innocent misunderstanding. An underpaid unhappy employee in security who did a terrible job and is trying to cover his ass with his superiors. But at this point, I don’t know. I’ll finally finish off with my goal. My primary goal is still based on the belief that this could a simple misunderstanding, that if I find the right person who knows how high rollers work, that this can be easily resolved. There are many reasons that I want to keep playing at BetUS if this situation can be resolved. (Such as they have a lot of software providers on their site, their sports betting lines being usually better than other bookies, the fact they have a loyalty program where almost none of the other bookies do, their payouts are very fast, etc etc etc….) I would like to continue playing at this casino. My account is currently disabled and my primary goal is to re-enable account access and reinstate confiscated funds. So that I can keep playing, keep high rolling, moving forward. I would consider this a fully satisfactory resolution. If that fails, then my secondary goal is to get my $4860 confiscated balance back. As they have literally no right, even based on their own terms, to make that confiscation. On the more sinister side, however, perhaps this whole thing has absolutely nothing to do with “high rolling” but rather just “winning”. Perhaps if they figured that they could simply just confiscate the top winners, they could [EDIT] a lot of money and still keep most of their player base. Perhaps they think they won’t face any consequences [EDIT]. If that’s the case then the player base needs to know what would happen if one day, luckily, or in fact unluckily, they themselves become a “top winner”. Hence the tertiary goal, if they refuse to pay, is to spread the word and warn other players. My questions for you: What should we do? Should I make the call, or is it better for you to write to them? Me telling them everything should be in writing obviously did nothing. But perhaps you, as the arbitrator, asking them why they insist on keeping the conversation off writing could change their mind? I’m deeply suspicious about this call. What do you think the call is actually about and do you think the situation can indeed be resolved by the call? If you do give me permission to make the call, should I record the call? If I do record the call, how much weight does the call record carry compared to being in writing? Especially since I live in a “two party state” where it’s supposedly illegal to record without both sides' consent.

They will not give me the full amount of money in my account, they will only give me $125 and I have $491.78. I spoke with [EDIT] (supervisor) ext. 2356 and he gave multiple excuses to not giving me my money #1. I took a free bet of $25.00 #2. I haven’t deposited any money since 2007 #3. I was not a valued customer #4. They wanted me to deposit more money in the account $491.78 to be exact lol. He was acting very helpful on the first phone call then when he called me back was rude and gave all of those excuses and said “take your $125 you had fun” over and over before hanging up on me before I was done talking.

I sent several messages (10/5 and 10/6) requesting that my account be closed immediately and that I not be allowed to reopen my account. I called the casino on 10/6 asking that my account be closed permanently. I was told this would be done immediately. When I went to the casino to verify this information,I found that my account was not closed and proceeded to lose $900. If the casino would have closed my account as requested several times this would not have happened.

I was scammed as I was playing slots here and the game kept spinning causing me to lose money. I reported it and management wouldn’t help and made me feel like I’m crazing. Ultimately banning me from using the chat services for help. This made me feel horrible! They’ve taken tons of money from me and have never paid out a penny. www.BetUS.com.pa is a scam! I want my money back from this place. At least I would like them to be exposed. People like [REMOVE]“Hellen” “Justin” “Nathan” and the manager “Montana”[REMOVE] treated me very poorly. These probably aren’t their real names but what appears in the chat. They've scammed me for $2,000 in the past couple of months! Please help!